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	<title>Comments on: More on &#8220;The Ever-Narrowing Orthodox Mind&#8221;</title>
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		<title>By: guest</title>
		<link>http://morethodoxy.org/2009/12/16/more-on-the-ever-narrowing-orthodox-mind/#comment-900</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[guest]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jan 2010 19:24:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://morethodoxy.org/2009/12/16/more-on-the-ever-narrowing-orthodox-mind/#comment-900</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I apologize for multiple postings but I wanted the ideas to be separated if they become discussed.

&quot;While there are many nuances in the interpretation of the Talmudic conclusion, one way or another, the Talmud is stepping away from the premise that illness is the direct outcome of sin.&quot;

This is a non-sequotor.  The gemora also gives Machot for sins that people do.  These machot in some instances work as a kaparah for those sins.

Just because a doctor is allowed/required to heal, does not mean that the illness did not come about because of some sin.

It is out job as Jews to work with this world and improve it. (as seen from the talmudic conversation regarding brit-milah and making bread out of wheat)  When there is illness and misfortune you must both use doctors and improve yourself and fix your faults.  We are not Christians and this is not an either/or option.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I apologize for multiple postings but I wanted the ideas to be separated if they become discussed.</p>
<p>&#8220;While there are many nuances in the interpretation of the Talmudic conclusion, one way or another, the Talmud is stepping away from the premise that illness is the direct outcome of sin.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is a non-sequotor.  The gemora also gives Machot for sins that people do.  These machot in some instances work as a kaparah for those sins.</p>
<p>Just because a doctor is allowed/required to heal, does not mean that the illness did not come about because of some sin.</p>
<p>It is out job as Jews to work with this world and improve it. (as seen from the talmudic conversation regarding brit-milah and making bread out of wheat)  When there is illness and misfortune you must both use doctors and improve yourself and fix your faults.  We are not Christians and this is not an either/or option.</p>
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		<title>By: guest</title>
		<link>http://morethodoxy.org/2009/12/16/more-on-the-ever-narrowing-orthodox-mind/#comment-899</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[guest]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jan 2010 19:20:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://morethodoxy.org/2009/12/16/more-on-the-ever-narrowing-orthodox-mind/#comment-899</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As a separate point:


&quot;The first is that people’s beliefs affect their attitudes and actions. Think about attitudes we saw in our community years ago – and sometimes still today – toward people who contracted AIDS. Think about the claims made by Orthodox rabbis concerning why New Orleans was almost wiped out by Katrina, or why some people survived on 9/11 and others did not.&quot;

The problem here is not with the religious belief. (I don&#039;t think Judaism has any dogmas btw)

The problem is with the limited and selective application of this belief.   Katrina is not any different from the storm that knocks a branch off your tree.  9/11 is no different than a drunk driving accident. (from theological perspective)

The leaf falling to the ground is no more or less divinely dictated than a branch crashing into your window after a storm, and it is we who choose to make things more or less relevant.  However, to deny that each of these actions are constantly being driven by an infinite G-d is, as I said above, to create a god in your own image.

There is a reason why the Jewish community as a whole has since rejected those minority opinions.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a separate point:</p>
<p>&#8220;The first is that people’s beliefs affect their attitudes and actions. Think about attitudes we saw in our community years ago – and sometimes still today – toward people who contracted AIDS. Think about the claims made by Orthodox rabbis concerning why New Orleans was almost wiped out by Katrina, or why some people survived on 9/11 and others did not.&#8221;</p>
<p>The problem here is not with the religious belief. (I don&#8217;t think Judaism has any dogmas btw)</p>
<p>The problem is with the limited and selective application of this belief.   Katrina is not any different from the storm that knocks a branch off your tree.  9/11 is no different than a drunk driving accident. (from theological perspective)</p>
<p>The leaf falling to the ground is no more or less divinely dictated than a branch crashing into your window after a storm, and it is we who choose to make things more or less relevant.  However, to deny that each of these actions are constantly being driven by an infinite G-d is, as I said above, to create a god in your own image.</p>
<p>There is a reason why the Jewish community as a whole has since rejected those minority opinions.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: guest</title>
		<link>http://morethodoxy.org/2009/12/16/more-on-the-ever-narrowing-orthodox-mind/#comment-898</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[guest]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jan 2010 19:14:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://morethodoxy.org/2009/12/16/more-on-the-ever-narrowing-orthodox-mind/#comment-898</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Regarding these two issues.

I have a problem with someone who has objection to this belief.

((1) Every calamity that occurs on Earth is the result of an express Divine decision as to how and when it should unfold, and that God directly decides who shall survive it, and who shall not.)

If G-d is not the ultimate reality, if the &quot;randomness&quot; of nature is not in the power of G-d then what is the point?  You have created a caricature of the old man in the sky.  Instead of understanding the implications of an infinite G-d which is both outside and permeates creation, where every act we do can be infused with holyness, you have instead created a god which you follow only when it does what you agree with. You have created a god in your own image.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding these two issues.</p>
<p>I have a problem with someone who has objection to this belief.</p>
<p>((1) Every calamity that occurs on Earth is the result of an express Divine decision as to how and when it should unfold, and that God directly decides who shall survive it, and who shall not.)</p>
<p>If G-d is not the ultimate reality, if the &#8220;randomness&#8221; of nature is not in the power of G-d then what is the point?  You have created a caricature of the old man in the sky.  Instead of understanding the implications of an infinite G-d which is both outside and permeates creation, where every act we do can be infused with holyness, you have instead created a god which you follow only when it does what you agree with. You have created a god in your own image.</p>
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