Comments on: Making Sure Judaism is Fair -By Rabbi Hyim Shafner

By: Naamah

Naamah — Mon, 30 Nov 2009 04:48:15 +0000

Thank you for this. I came upon this posting after just finishing a post of my own mulling over the issue of women’s participation in Orthodox leadership and religious life. As a person who underwent a conversion through the Conservative movement and has been thinking about pursuing an Orthodox conversion, the issue of women’s role in Judaism has been quite central in my considerations. Your observation that the problem with the liberal movements “was in losing the passion and commitment among their masses to Torah and Mitzvot” is apt; it is exactly this that I have found troubling.

By: Hyim Shafner

Hyim Shafner — Sun, 29 Nov 2009 08:59:29 +0000

I agree kiddusha is central to being “mamlechet kohanim v’goy kadosh”. But I don’t think that kidusha and openness have to be in conflict. The chesed that comes with openness may actually be something that helps to achieve kiddusha. Openness and the attitude of chesed that is its underpinning, brings respect for the other, often creating the boundaries that are needed to retain kiddusha without rigid boundaries. Despite the Rashi that says kiddusha is the result of greater “sexual” boundaries. Indeed greater sexual boundaries can come not only from building walls but from building respect for the other. This ironically comes from making more room for the other, seeing them as fully made in the image of God, from the chesed of openness.
Hyim

By: Aaron Leibowitz

Aaron Leibowitz — Sun, 29 Nov 2009 06:08:03 +0000

I enjoyed this post, it came at a time when my community is exploring its boundaries in these areas. Thank you. One thing which has been on my mind when comparing the different voices of the different movements is the idea of “Kedusha”, holiness. This comes up for me on two levels. One, the boundaries which allow for sexual tension to be set aside when standing before God, and two, the watering down of the God focused experience of Awe at the core of Torah when choosing a path focused on progressiveness and ideology. These pitfalls are very present in our world, despite our professed “comandedness”. These are the elements I would take care not to lose while “making more room for the glory of God”.

By: Hyim Shafner

Hyim Shafner — Sun, 29 Nov 2009 05:24:49 +0000

I strongly agree that we should fight with all our might to counter the lack of knowledge among the Jewish people. The question is how. I do not believe we will successfully engage the Jewish people in Torah by fighting. I also think that its about much more than dogmatic beliefs, like Torah MiSaini. Its going to happen by Orthodox Jews acting in a way toward the rest of the Jewish People in which our voice can be heard instead of the rest of the Jewish world dismissing us as crazy.

By: Hyim Shafner

Hyim Shafner — Sun, 29 Nov 2009 05:20:40 +0000

Conservative Judaism I think would say it subscribes to the idea of comandedness but just feels if the Rabbis of the Talmud lived today they would think we have stultified the halachic process. Reform Judaism on the other hand does not think Jews are commanded. Maybe I should have said Conservative in the above quote and not included Reform. I of course believe we are commanded to keep Halacha.

I think the Conservative notion that Halacha is in the hands of people is true, especially when its about finding ways within halacha to make Judaism more inspiring, on the other hand I think conservative Judaism failed to retain deep Torah and Mitzvot and a passionate commitment to them.

By: Gedalia Walls

Gedalia Walls — Sun, 29 Nov 2009 03:25:31 +0000

As I recall, Devorah asked Barak to lead the army because it was not a woman’s role to do so. Is it possible that there may be leadership roles available for each person, but different forms of leadership? If you want to have women as rabbis (or whatever you want to call them) and shul presidents, just say it and stop beating around the bush. Understand that your interpretation of the halacha will be different than others and that you will have to stand behind your decision to do so. What I don’t understand is the prioritization of this decision- when the liberal movements of Judaism (Reform, etc.) challenge the basic beliefs of Judaism, why is the battlefield on the right and not on the left? Why not set up leadership to counter the lack of knowledge in what we believe that is so fundamental to our people and our existence? Isn’t fighting for more people believing that Torah was given by Hashem at Sinai more important than who gets to give the dvar Torah this Shabbes?

By: AMS

AMS — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 20:32:47 +0000

“Maybe the liberal movements such as Conservative Judaism and Reform Judaism went wrong in our eyes, but maybe their mistake was not in making more room for people to serve God, maybe it was in losing the passion and commitment among their masses to Torah and Mitzvot.”

While I agree with this statement and the premise of the overall article I think the main difference between the liberal movements and Orthodoxy is the idea of comandedness. When taking away the principle that we were commanded by G-d to perform all of the mitzvot, passion and commitment to mitzvot will be lost. In order to have a vibrant Modern/Open Orthodoxy that is inclusive to all, walking that line of where comandedness begins and ends has to be dealt with.

I look forward to hearing other’s comments about this issue… Shabbat Shalom