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	<title>Comments on: Takes Many Spiritual Tools to Connect to an Infinite God –By Rabbi Hyim Shafner</title>
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	<link>http://morethodoxy.org/2009/07/10/takes-many-spiritual-tools-to-connect-to-an-infinite-god-%e2%80%93by-rabbi-hyim-shafner/</link>
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		<title>By: the art of war</title>
		<link>http://morethodoxy.org/2009/07/10/takes-many-spiritual-tools-to-connect-to-an-infinite-god-%e2%80%93by-rabbi-hyim-shafner/#comment-920</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[the art of war]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jan 2010 01:41:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://morethodoxy.org/?p=167#comment-920</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;strong&gt;the art of war...&lt;/strong&gt;

...He wrote that . . ....]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>the art of war&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>&#8230;He wrote that . . &#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Hyim Shafner</title>
		<link>http://morethodoxy.org/2009/07/10/takes-many-spiritual-tools-to-connect-to-an-infinite-god-%e2%80%93by-rabbi-hyim-shafner/#comment-680</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Hyim Shafner]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 21:22:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://morethodoxy.org/?p=167#comment-680</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Anna
That piece of Talmud is refering to a group of people, the &quot;Ancient Pious Ones.&quot;  we don&#039;t know who they were but certainly there is no obligation on Jews to pray 9 hours a day.  On the contrary from a Biblical perspective just one moment of connecting with God a day  in one&#039;s own words would be enough.   I felt the story of the ancient pious ones was important because it shows us that prayer is meant to be more than mere recitation of words, rather a deeper more meditative act.

In terms of creationism and science see my post on this blog about that, here is the link: http://morethodoxy.org/2009/10/16/rash%E2%80%9Di-and-ramba%E2%80%9Dn-on-creationism-by-rabbi-hyim-shafner/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anna<br />
That piece of Talmud is refering to a group of people, the &#8220;Ancient Pious Ones.&#8221;  we don&#8217;t know who they were but certainly there is no obligation on Jews to pray 9 hours a day.  On the contrary from a Biblical perspective just one moment of connecting with God a day  in one&#8217;s own words would be enough.   I felt the story of the ancient pious ones was important because it shows us that prayer is meant to be more than mere recitation of words, rather a deeper more meditative act.</p>
<p>In terms of creationism and science see my post on this blog about that, here is the link: <a href="http://morethodoxy.org/2009/10/16/rash%E2%80%9Di-and-ramba%E2%80%9Dn-on-creationism-by-rabbi-hyim-shafner/" rel="nofollow">http://morethodoxy.org/2009/10/16/rash%E2%80%9Di-and-ramba%E2%80%9Dn-on-creationism-by-rabbi-hyim-shafner/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Anna</title>
		<link>http://morethodoxy.org/2009/07/10/takes-many-spiritual-tools-to-connect-to-an-infinite-god-%e2%80%93by-rabbi-hyim-shafner/#comment-678</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anna]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 21:04:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://morethodoxy.org/?p=167#comment-678</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[3 prayers... 3 hours each...

9 hours to pray per day...

Think one minute about what you say Judaism is asking the Jews!!!

If it is the case, Judaism is a religion for those who don&#039;t work, don&#039;t want to be with their family and don&#039;t need any time for themselves. People who don&#039;t give anything to society and would need society to feed and lodge them.

But then, they can always throw a prayer and get pay, kill a chicken and get pay, write a mezuza and get pay, cut a prepuce and get pay etc... What a surprise!

Sorry if I sound a little angry. This wasn&#039;t the reason why I left religions behind. It is not because it was created by men, but because they usually created bloodthirsty, intolerant, misogynistic, illogic/against science gods and rules.

How can God creates the plants before the sun? Even if it was just one day/24 of our hours, it cannot work, but it is even worse if we have to believe it is &quot;one day&quot; of God, that is billion of years, so to rectify that the Universe is of couse not 6000 years. Do you think plants can live millions of years without the sun? But then, religious people will invent another explanation like plants didn&#039;t need the sun, that God provided for them in another way. Explanation after explanation, so not to see the simple truth that the people who wrote the torah didn&#039;t know, among many many other facts, that plants cannot live without sun, like that our earth wasn&#039;t created before the stars etc...

Oops I did it again, letting my rational thoughts out while I dislike religions primarly because God doesn&#039;t care about little girls being raped or men being tortured while affirming he is a loving-God. A loving God who give the &quot;miracle&quot; of a little jar of oil but who let children die in wars or drough etc

http://www.freewebs.com/religionfree/#
http://www.faithfreedom.org
http://jesusneverexisted.com/time.html]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>3 prayers&#8230; 3 hours each&#8230;</p>
<p>9 hours to pray per day&#8230;</p>
<p>Think one minute about what you say Judaism is asking the Jews!!!</p>
<p>If it is the case, Judaism is a religion for those who don&#8217;t work, don&#8217;t want to be with their family and don&#8217;t need any time for themselves. People who don&#8217;t give anything to society and would need society to feed and lodge them.</p>
<p>But then, they can always throw a prayer and get pay, kill a chicken and get pay, write a mezuza and get pay, cut a prepuce and get pay etc&#8230; What a surprise!</p>
<p>Sorry if I sound a little angry. This wasn&#8217;t the reason why I left religions behind. It is not because it was created by men, but because they usually created bloodthirsty, intolerant, misogynistic, illogic/against science gods and rules.</p>
<p>How can God creates the plants before the sun? Even if it was just one day/24 of our hours, it cannot work, but it is even worse if we have to believe it is &#8220;one day&#8221; of God, that is billion of years, so to rectify that the Universe is of couse not 6000 years. Do you think plants can live millions of years without the sun? But then, religious people will invent another explanation like plants didn&#8217;t need the sun, that God provided for them in another way. Explanation after explanation, so not to see the simple truth that the people who wrote the torah didn&#8217;t know, among many many other facts, that plants cannot live without sun, like that our earth wasn&#8217;t created before the stars etc&#8230;</p>
<p>Oops I did it again, letting my rational thoughts out while I dislike religions primarly because God doesn&#8217;t care about little girls being raped or men being tortured while affirming he is a loving-God. A loving God who give the &#8220;miracle&#8221; of a little jar of oil but who let children die in wars or drough etc</p>
<p><a href="http://www.freewebs.com/religionfree/#" rel="nofollow">http://www.freewebs.com/religionfree/#</a><br />
<a href="http://www.faithfreedom.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.faithfreedom.org</a><br />
<a href="http://jesusneverexisted.com/time.html" rel="nofollow">http://jesusneverexisted.com/time.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Aryeh</title>
		<link>http://morethodoxy.org/2009/07/10/takes-many-spiritual-tools-to-connect-to-an-infinite-god-%e2%80%93by-rabbi-hyim-shafner/#comment-263</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Aryeh]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 14:30:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://morethodoxy.org/?p=167#comment-263</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I do not disagree with the premise, but I do believe that the lack of kavanah and hurried effort at tefilah that many deal with is because of the modern world.  I, for one, certainly have more kavanah on Shabbat and Yom Tov than I do during the week when I am running to work, to deal with kids or for an errand.  On the Yamim Noraim, when things are not as rushed I have the most Kavanah.  I think this is a result of the modern world&#039;s impact on us.  It does not, I believe have to do with any reaction to Reform or another complex concept.  

I do think, though, that we do a poor job of educating on tefilah.  Even those that went to day school or yeshiva, once tefillah was learned, did those schools continue courses on the meaning and concepts behind tefilah?  The answer is usually no.  I believe in the Maimonidies model as taught by Rabbi Wohlgemuth zt&#039;l.  Tefilah courses were important in that school (perhaps Rabbi Lopatin can speak to their importance).  The basics were taught in elementary school, but middle and high school were when you understood tefilah.  This, unfortunately, is rare.  In fact, so rare that there is the famous story that when the Rav zt&#039;l visited one of Rabbi Wohlgemuth&#039;s zt&#039;l  classes, he took a copy of the exam that was being given that day and gave it to his smicha students at RIETS, none of whom passed.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do not disagree with the premise, but I do believe that the lack of kavanah and hurried effort at tefilah that many deal with is because of the modern world.  I, for one, certainly have more kavanah on Shabbat and Yom Tov than I do during the week when I am running to work, to deal with kids or for an errand.  On the Yamim Noraim, when things are not as rushed I have the most Kavanah.  I think this is a result of the modern world&#8217;s impact on us.  It does not, I believe have to do with any reaction to Reform or another complex concept.  </p>
<p>I do think, though, that we do a poor job of educating on tefilah.  Even those that went to day school or yeshiva, once tefillah was learned, did those schools continue courses on the meaning and concepts behind tefilah?  The answer is usually no.  I believe in the Maimonidies model as taught by Rabbi Wohlgemuth zt&#8217;l.  Tefilah courses were important in that school (perhaps Rabbi Lopatin can speak to their importance).  The basics were taught in elementary school, but middle and high school were when you understood tefilah.  This, unfortunately, is rare.  In fact, so rare that there is the famous story that when the Rav zt&#8217;l visited one of Rabbi Wohlgemuth&#8217;s zt&#8217;l  classes, he took a copy of the exam that was being given that day and gave it to his smicha students at RIETS, none of whom passed.</p>
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		<title>By: Moshe</title>
		<link>http://morethodoxy.org/2009/07/10/takes-many-spiritual-tools-to-connect-to-an-infinite-god-%e2%80%93by-rabbi-hyim-shafner/#comment-261</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Moshe]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 06:32:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://morethodoxy.org/?p=167#comment-261</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If I remember Seth Kadish&#039;s book http://www.amazon.com/Kavvana-Directing-Heart-Jewish-Prayer/dp/0765759527 correctly, it was originally prohibited to pray without kavanah.  Only after we fell to the level where most people mostly prayed without kavanah did we adopt the custom to pray even without kavanah.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If I remember Seth Kadish&#8217;s book <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Kavvana-Directing-Heart-Jewish-Prayer/dp/0765759527" rel="nofollow">http://www.amazon.com/Kavvana-Directing-Heart-Jewish-Prayer/dp/0765759527</a> correctly, it was originally prohibited to pray without kavanah.  Only after we fell to the level where most people mostly prayed without kavanah did we adopt the custom to pray even without kavanah.</p>
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