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	<title>Comments on: Goodbye &#8220;Shelo Asani &#8211; God didn&#8217;t make me a &#8230;&#8221; Hello &#8220;She&#8217;asani Yisrael&#8221; &#8211; &#8220;God made me a Yisrael&#8221; Rabbi Asher Lopatin</title>
	<atom:link href="http://morethodoxy.org/2009/06/29/goodbye-shelo-asani-god-didnt-make-me-a-hello-sheasani-yisrael-god-made-me-a-yisrael-rabbi-asher-lopatin/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://morethodoxy.org/2009/06/29/goodbye-shelo-asani-god-didnt-make-me-a-hello-sheasani-yisrael-god-made-me-a-yisrael-rabbi-asher-lopatin/</link>
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		<title>By: Milton Peoples</title>
		<link>http://morethodoxy.org/2009/06/29/goodbye-shelo-asani-god-didnt-make-me-a-hello-sheasani-yisrael-god-made-me-a-yisrael-rabbi-asher-lopatin/#comment-1169</link>
		<dc:creator>Milton Peoples</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 May 2010 14:56:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://morethodoxy.org/2009/06/29/goodbye-shelo-asani-god-didnt-make-me-a-hello-sheasani-yisrael-god-made-me-a-yisrael-rabbi-asher-lopatin/#comment-1169</guid>
		<description>Incredibly interesting read! Really!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Incredibly interesting read! Really!</p>
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		<title>By: shneer</title>
		<link>http://morethodoxy.org/2009/06/29/goodbye-shelo-asani-god-didnt-make-me-a-hello-sheasani-yisrael-god-made-me-a-yisrael-rabbi-asher-lopatin/#comment-970</link>
		<dc:creator>shneer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 22:49:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://morethodoxy.org/2009/06/29/goodbye-shelo-asani-god-didnt-make-me-a-hello-sheasani-yisrael-god-made-me-a-yisrael-rabbi-asher-lopatin/#comment-970</guid>
		<description>Social Justice is indeed an important, integral part of Judaism as I understand it, but surely Teshuva itself requires a degree of self-contemplation. I do not see that as a negative. 

You may be correct about Reform increasing numbers, I don&#039;t know for sure. But, to me, it hardly matters, since the degree of traditional basic observance in that community is virtually nil. I&quot;m speaking from personal experience family-wise... ANYTHING goes.

You are also correct that MO is bowing to a Chareidi face... that is a shame. To choose between being a Reform Jew and a black hatted penguin isn&#039;t much of a choice for me. I dont&#039; think it has to be that way.

Finally (your first point) I don&#039;t see much intellectual &#039;cutting edge&#039; ANYWHERE in Judaism, so I don&#039;t think its fair to target MO as being weak on that. Our generation has its gurus, but overall does not have the Yichus and drive for intellectual truth that my parents generation had. Just My Opinion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Social Justice is indeed an important, integral part of Judaism as I understand it, but surely Teshuva itself requires a degree of self-contemplation. I do not see that as a negative. </p>
<p>You may be correct about Reform increasing numbers, I don&#8217;t know for sure. But, to me, it hardly matters, since the degree of traditional basic observance in that community is virtually nil. I&#8221;m speaking from personal experience family-wise&#8230; ANYTHING goes.</p>
<p>You are also correct that MO is bowing to a Chareidi face&#8230; that is a shame. To choose between being a Reform Jew and a black hatted penguin isn&#8217;t much of a choice for me. I dont&#8217; think it has to be that way.</p>
<p>Finally (your first point) I don&#8217;t see much intellectual &#8216;cutting edge&#8217; ANYWHERE in Judaism, so I don&#8217;t think its fair to target MO as being weak on that. Our generation has its gurus, but overall does not have the Yichus and drive for intellectual truth that my parents generation had. Just My Opinion.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Stein</title>
		<link>http://morethodoxy.org/2009/06/29/goodbye-shelo-asani-god-didnt-make-me-a-hello-sheasani-yisrael-god-made-me-a-yisrael-rabbi-asher-lopatin/#comment-963</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Stein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Feb 2010 04:53:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://morethodoxy.org/2009/06/29/goodbye-shelo-asani-god-didnt-make-me-a-hello-sheasani-yisrael-god-made-me-a-yisrael-rabbi-asher-lopatin/#comment-963</guid>
		<description>Hello Shneer:

I believe the religious face of Judaism to the world, and the fastest growing and intellectually dominant (though not necessarily correct) stream of Judaism, is much more chareidi than modern Orthodox, and conveys the cult like aspects I&#039;ve noted. 

But even modern orthodoxy is not what I&#039;d call intellectually cutting edge. Rav Soloveitchik was a powerful thinker, but who is there today that commands such broad influence and respect? An orthodox scientist who wins a nobel prize is something to be proud of, but that doesn&#039;t mean Judaism itself is continuing to contribute to the intellectual and spiritual development of the broader world. Judaism is supposed to be an Or LaGoyim, and is supposed to convey wisdom and spiritual power to the entire world, not merely produce an occasional Nobel Prize winner. The nations are supposed to see Judaism as an inspirational power, and I don&#039;t see that happening, as modern orthodoxy defers to chareidi views all too often, and veers into a philosophical fundamentalism of its own, dressed in more modern clothing. I see glimmers of hope in the Morthodoxy postings here, and on some other venues, but it&#039;s an uphill struggle. 

Conservative and Reform Judaism have failed far more decisively, in my opinion, though I think you are mistaken about trends in Reform -- the movement is growing, not shrinking. But I comment from inside the Orthodox world, not outside.

As for metaphysics, it seems to me that Isaiah exhorts us to social justice goals, not metaphysical contemplation. True, metaphysics is powerful and important, but it can all too easily morph into self contemplation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello Shneer:</p>
<p>I believe the religious face of Judaism to the world, and the fastest growing and intellectually dominant (though not necessarily correct) stream of Judaism, is much more chareidi than modern Orthodox, and conveys the cult like aspects I&#8217;ve noted. </p>
<p>But even modern orthodoxy is not what I&#8217;d call intellectually cutting edge. Rav Soloveitchik was a powerful thinker, but who is there today that commands such broad influence and respect? An orthodox scientist who wins a nobel prize is something to be proud of, but that doesn&#8217;t mean Judaism itself is continuing to contribute to the intellectual and spiritual development of the broader world. Judaism is supposed to be an Or LaGoyim, and is supposed to convey wisdom and spiritual power to the entire world, not merely produce an occasional Nobel Prize winner. The nations are supposed to see Judaism as an inspirational power, and I don&#8217;t see that happening, as modern orthodoxy defers to chareidi views all too often, and veers into a philosophical fundamentalism of its own, dressed in more modern clothing. I see glimmers of hope in the Morthodoxy postings here, and on some other venues, but it&#8217;s an uphill struggle. </p>
<p>Conservative and Reform Judaism have failed far more decisively, in my opinion, though I think you are mistaken about trends in Reform &#8212; the movement is growing, not shrinking. But I comment from inside the Orthodox world, not outside.</p>
<p>As for metaphysics, it seems to me that Isaiah exhorts us to social justice goals, not metaphysical contemplation. True, metaphysics is powerful and important, but it can all too easily morph into self contemplation.</p>
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		<title>By: shneer</title>
		<link>http://morethodoxy.org/2009/06/29/goodbye-shelo-asani-god-didnt-make-me-a-hello-sheasani-yisrael-god-made-me-a-yisrael-rabbi-asher-lopatin/#comment-960</link>
		<dc:creator>shneer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 22:54:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://morethodoxy.org/2009/06/29/goodbye-shelo-asani-god-didnt-make-me-a-hello-sheasani-yisrael-god-made-me-a-yisrael-rabbi-asher-lopatin/#comment-960</guid>
		<description>Michael Stein wrote  &quot;...and Orthodoxy looking more and more like an insular cult, unable to make a true contribution to world culture any more, unless we ascribe to some esoteric, metaphysical view of the value we are adding to the world even though nobody can prove it and most don’t see it.&quot;

Dear Michael...that statement displays so much ignorance. What Orthodoxy are you looking at? The one I see wears a kippa, keeps shabbat, practices Law or Accounting or Engineering, has Gentile and Jewish clients, keeps Kashrut, Family Purity and goes to the Cubs games. What is so &#039;insular&#039; and &#039;cult-like&#039; about that? 

An Orthodox Israeli whos name escapes me won the Nobel Prize for physics within the last couple of years or so, big media picture of him with the Nobel royalty... if that is not a &#039;true contribution to world culture&#039;, what is?

Finally, any belief in an active Supreme Creator forces one to &#039;ascribe to some esoteric, metaphysical view.&#039; What your statement really tells me is that the Conservative and Reform branches have effectively abandoned ANY belief in a Supreme Creator who gave the Torah at MT. Sinai as merely childish fantasy, (because, as you say,&#039;nobody can prove it and most don&#039;t see it,)  and you have replaced it with a Secular Liberalism disguised as Judaism. 

And THAT, my friend, is why the Conservative and Reform movements are losing adherents in droves. You offer them nothing they can&#039;t get at their local Lakeview community meeting or food pantry. No demands, no sacrifice, just slogans and community service. That&#039;s nice, but it isn&#039;t Judaism by itself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael Stein wrote  &#8220;&#8230;and Orthodoxy looking more and more like an insular cult, unable to make a true contribution to world culture any more, unless we ascribe to some esoteric, metaphysical view of the value we are adding to the world even though nobody can prove it and most don’t see it.&#8221;</p>
<p>Dear Michael&#8230;that statement displays so much ignorance. What Orthodoxy are you looking at? The one I see wears a kippa, keeps shabbat, practices Law or Accounting or Engineering, has Gentile and Jewish clients, keeps Kashrut, Family Purity and goes to the Cubs games. What is so &#8216;insular&#8217; and &#8216;cult-like&#8217; about that? </p>
<p>An Orthodox Israeli whos name escapes me won the Nobel Prize for physics within the last couple of years or so, big media picture of him with the Nobel royalty&#8230; if that is not a &#8216;true contribution to world culture&#8217;, what is?</p>
<p>Finally, any belief in an active Supreme Creator forces one to &#8216;ascribe to some esoteric, metaphysical view.&#8217; What your statement really tells me is that the Conservative and Reform branches have effectively abandoned ANY belief in a Supreme Creator who gave the Torah at MT. Sinai as merely childish fantasy, (because, as you say,&#8217;nobody can prove it and most don&#8217;t see it,)  and you have replaced it with a Secular Liberalism disguised as Judaism. </p>
<p>And THAT, my friend, is why the Conservative and Reform movements are losing adherents in droves. You offer them nothing they can&#8217;t get at their local Lakeview community meeting or food pantry. No demands, no sacrifice, just slogans and community service. That&#8217;s nice, but it isn&#8217;t Judaism by itself.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Stein</title>
		<link>http://morethodoxy.org/2009/06/29/goodbye-shelo-asani-god-didnt-make-me-a-hello-sheasani-yisrael-god-made-me-a-yisrael-rabbi-asher-lopatin/#comment-958</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Stein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 16:41:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://morethodoxy.org/2009/06/29/goodbye-shelo-asani-god-didnt-make-me-a-hello-sheasani-yisrael-god-made-me-a-yisrael-rabbi-asher-lopatin/#comment-958</guid>
		<description>I very much support Rabbi Lopatin&#039;s attempt to address the disturbing implications of &quot;sh&#039;lo asani...&quot; with creative thinking that is solidly rooted in various sources, even if those sources are not a majority opinion.

I understand why others find this approach sort of scary. After all, the Conservative movement tried to be more creative with halacha, and has failed at inspiring large numbers of people to become Jewishly literate and shomer mitzvot.
 
But I do not believe the failure of the Conservative movement should lead us to stop trying to address real issues. And the negative impact of the &quot;sh&#039;lo asani&quot; brachot is very real, as is their deep contradiction with important, legitimate concerns that modernity has alerted us to, but have timeless relevance and value (e.g. women&#039;s issues, issues of racial superiority, etc.). 

Many of those who defend the traditional Orthodox approach perhaps don&#039;t appreciate the magnitude of the disaster we are experiencing today, with the vast majority of Jews assimilating, and Orthodoxy looking more and more like an insular cult, unable to make a true contribution to world culture any more, unless we ascribe to some esoteric, metaphysical view of the value we are adding to the world even though nobody can prove it and most don&#039;t see it. (That&#039;s pretty much how the chareidi world in Israel justifies not going to the army -- saying that the secular world doesn&#039;t understand the contribution made by Torah study -- and all the while creating an absolutely massive hillul Hashem by letting non-chareidi kids die and saving their own skin with self-serving metaphysics.) 

We are supposed to be a light unto the nations -- for all to see and recognize. Even if one believes that the &quot;shelo asani&quot; brachot are not misogynistic or smacking of racial superiority, it is undeniable that they give the appearance or impression of that to many Jews and non-Jews alike. We need to be concerned about that. So I applaud Rabbi Lopatin&#039;s attempt to address the issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I very much support Rabbi Lopatin&#8217;s attempt to address the disturbing implications of &#8220;sh&#8217;lo asani&#8230;&#8221; with creative thinking that is solidly rooted in various sources, even if those sources are not a majority opinion.</p>
<p>I understand why others find this approach sort of scary. After all, the Conservative movement tried to be more creative with halacha, and has failed at inspiring large numbers of people to become Jewishly literate and shomer mitzvot.</p>
<p>But I do not believe the failure of the Conservative movement should lead us to stop trying to address real issues. And the negative impact of the &#8220;sh&#8217;lo asani&#8221; brachot is very real, as is their deep contradiction with important, legitimate concerns that modernity has alerted us to, but have timeless relevance and value (e.g. women&#8217;s issues, issues of racial superiority, etc.). </p>
<p>Many of those who defend the traditional Orthodox approach perhaps don&#8217;t appreciate the magnitude of the disaster we are experiencing today, with the vast majority of Jews assimilating, and Orthodoxy looking more and more like an insular cult, unable to make a true contribution to world culture any more, unless we ascribe to some esoteric, metaphysical view of the value we are adding to the world even though nobody can prove it and most don&#8217;t see it. (That&#8217;s pretty much how the chareidi world in Israel justifies not going to the army &#8212; saying that the secular world doesn&#8217;t understand the contribution made by Torah study &#8212; and all the while creating an absolutely massive hillul Hashem by letting non-chareidi kids die and saving their own skin with self-serving metaphysics.) </p>
<p>We are supposed to be a light unto the nations &#8212; for all to see and recognize. Even if one believes that the &#8220;shelo asani&#8221; brachot are not misogynistic or smacking of racial superiority, it is undeniable that they give the appearance or impression of that to many Jews and non-Jews alike. We need to be concerned about that. So I applaud Rabbi Lopatin&#8217;s attempt to address the issue.</p>
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		<title>By: Asher Lopatin</title>
		<link>http://morethodoxy.org/2009/06/29/goodbye-shelo-asani-god-didnt-make-me-a-hello-sheasani-yisrael-god-made-me-a-yisrael-rabbi-asher-lopatin/#comment-956</link>
		<dc:creator>Asher Lopatin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 07:21:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://morethodoxy.org/2009/06/29/goodbye-shelo-asani-god-didnt-make-me-a-hello-sheasani-yisrael-god-made-me-a-yisrael-rabbi-asher-lopatin/#comment-956</guid>
		<description>My rebbe, Rav Ahron Soliveichik was never bothered that we currently   might use a censored version of things such as not saying in Aleinu   &quot;shehem mishtachavim&quot;. Just because something was censored doesn&#039;t   mean that the only reason it was taken out was fear. In fact there are   many more parts that speak against Gentiles &quot;vegam bimnuchato lo   yoshkenu areilim&quot; but there our tradition chose not to take them out.   Many censor theoreticians  also suggest that the Meiri&#039;s revolutionary   interpretations were also forced by the Gentiles. Maybe, but Rav Ahron   accepted them as Halacha. 

But thx for the comments and challenges. I&#039;m sure we haven&#039;t heard the   end of this. 

Shalom and best wishes, 

Rabbi Asher Lopatin 

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My rebbe, Rav Ahron Soliveichik was never bothered that we currently   might use a censored version of things such as not saying in Aleinu   &#8220;shehem mishtachavim&#8221;. Just because something was censored doesn&#8217;t   mean that the only reason it was taken out was fear. In fact there are   many more parts that speak against Gentiles &#8220;vegam bimnuchato lo   yoshkenu areilim&#8221; but there our tradition chose not to take them out.   Many censor theoreticians  also suggest that the Meiri&#8217;s revolutionary   interpretations were also forced by the Gentiles. Maybe, but Rav Ahron   accepted them as Halacha. </p>
<p>But thx for the comments and challenges. I&#8217;m sure we haven&#8217;t heard the   end of this. </p>
<p>Shalom and best wishes, </p>
<p>Rabbi Asher Lopatin</p>
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		<title>By: DFK</title>
		<link>http://morethodoxy.org/2009/06/29/goodbye-shelo-asani-god-didnt-make-me-a-hello-sheasani-yisrael-god-made-me-a-yisrael-rabbi-asher-lopatin/#comment-951</link>
		<dc:creator>DFK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jan 2010 10:14:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://morethodoxy.org/2009/06/29/goodbye-shelo-asani-god-didnt-make-me-a-hello-sheasani-yisrael-god-made-me-a-yisrael-rabbi-asher-lopatin/#comment-951</guid>
		<description>Dear Rabbi Lopatin,
With all the appreciation of your motives, I&#039;m quite disappointed about the lack of scholarly rigor of your analysis.  If you are looking at what &quot;our versions&quot; of the Talmud have, as a basis for textual emendation, then the scholarly approach would be to look at what existed in the manuscripts (available on the web) and those editions before the Vilna Shas, because, I hope this is not a surprise - the Vilna edition is not from Sinai.  The reason that the Rambam and other rishonim had the negative version - shelo asani goy - is because that is the pre-censored version in the Talmud.  The Steinsaltz edition, though not a critical edition of the Talmud, chose to revert to texts that were not censored, and has shelo asani goy.  Unless one takes the view of the Hazon Ish (as he did with the Meiri&#039;s work being hidden by God on purpose for several centuries) that the censorship was the hand of God, it would be much more intellectually rigorous to deal with the original text.  The censorship might have been self-imposed or externally imposed, but the differing texts have a historical basis, and the original text of these blessings is quite apparent.

On the other hand, it is quite clear that the text of these blessings (and our siddur, in general) has had many variations.

Your proposal was made a century or more ago by Rabbi Abraham Berliner, but he was well aware that the positive form is a result of censorship.  He thought it was a good idea, anyway, and he knew that there were siddurim that had this form.  He also felt it would obviate the need for the other two blessings.

A very compelling reason to omit these blessings altogether is that they were influenced by the ancient Greeks, who had similar blessings.  And, of course, Jews should not be influenced by Western values (I say with tongue in cheek).  Hukat ha-goyim and all.

I strongly recommend that all those who participated in the discussion here read the excellent article by Joseph Tabory, &quot;The Benedictions of Self-identity and the Changing Status of Women and of Orthodoxy,&quot; Kenishta, Bar Ilan University Press, 1, 2001, 107-138. 
It is posted with the Press&#039;s permission on the JOFA website at http://www.jofa.org/pdf/uploaded/517-DJMB5131.pdf.

I was also surprised that no one noted that the Conservative siddurim have the triad of blessings in the positive form, and reverse order so as to go from the general to the specific (as they do in the negative form), resulting in she&#039;asani b&#039;tzalmo, she&#039;asani ben/bat horin, she&#039;asani Yisrael.

DFK (a woman, a feminist)
Jerusalem</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Rabbi Lopatin,<br />
With all the appreciation of your motives, I&#8217;m quite disappointed about the lack of scholarly rigor of your analysis.  If you are looking at what &#8220;our versions&#8221; of the Talmud have, as a basis for textual emendation, then the scholarly approach would be to look at what existed in the manuscripts (available on the web) and those editions before the Vilna Shas, because, I hope this is not a surprise &#8211; the Vilna edition is not from Sinai.  The reason that the Rambam and other rishonim had the negative version &#8211; shelo asani goy &#8211; is because that is the pre-censored version in the Talmud.  The Steinsaltz edition, though not a critical edition of the Talmud, chose to revert to texts that were not censored, and has shelo asani goy.  Unless one takes the view of the Hazon Ish (as he did with the Meiri&#8217;s work being hidden by God on purpose for several centuries) that the censorship was the hand of God, it would be much more intellectually rigorous to deal with the original text.  The censorship might have been self-imposed or externally imposed, but the differing texts have a historical basis, and the original text of these blessings is quite apparent.</p>
<p>On the other hand, it is quite clear that the text of these blessings (and our siddur, in general) has had many variations.</p>
<p>Your proposal was made a century or more ago by Rabbi Abraham Berliner, but he was well aware that the positive form is a result of censorship.  He thought it was a good idea, anyway, and he knew that there were siddurim that had this form.  He also felt it would obviate the need for the other two blessings.</p>
<p>A very compelling reason to omit these blessings altogether is that they were influenced by the ancient Greeks, who had similar blessings.  And, of course, Jews should not be influenced by Western values (I say with tongue in cheek).  Hukat ha-goyim and all.</p>
<p>I strongly recommend that all those who participated in the discussion here read the excellent article by Joseph Tabory, &#8220;The Benedictions of Self-identity and the Changing Status of Women and of Orthodoxy,&#8221; Kenishta, Bar Ilan University Press, 1, 2001, 107-138.<br />
It is posted with the Press&#8217;s permission on the JOFA website at <a href="http://www.jofa.org/pdf/uploaded/517-DJMB5131.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.jofa.org/pdf/uploaded/517-DJMB5131.pdf</a>.</p>
<p>I was also surprised that no one noted that the Conservative siddurim have the triad of blessings in the positive form, and reverse order so as to go from the general to the specific (as they do in the negative form), resulting in she&#8217;asani b&#8217;tzalmo, she&#8217;asani ben/bat horin, she&#8217;asani Yisrael.</p>
<p>DFK (a woman, a feminist)<br />
Jerusalem</p>
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		<title>By: David J</title>
		<link>http://morethodoxy.org/2009/06/29/goodbye-shelo-asani-god-didnt-make-me-a-hello-sheasani-yisrael-god-made-me-a-yisrael-rabbi-asher-lopatin/#comment-950</link>
		<dc:creator>David J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jan 2010 02:00:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://morethodoxy.org/2009/06/29/goodbye-shelo-asani-god-didnt-make-me-a-hello-sheasani-yisrael-god-made-me-a-yisrael-rabbi-asher-lopatin/#comment-950</guid>
		<description>Garnel, Your rejoinders might be more effective if you left out the ad-hominem attacks which serve only to demean your position. Argue the points, man, leave out the invective. If you mean it to be intimidating, you have failed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Garnel, Your rejoinders might be more effective if you left out the ad-hominem attacks which serve only to demean your position. Argue the points, man, leave out the invective. If you mean it to be intimidating, you have failed.</p>
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		<title>By: shneer</title>
		<link>http://morethodoxy.org/2009/06/29/goodbye-shelo-asani-god-didnt-make-me-a-hello-sheasani-yisrael-god-made-me-a-yisrael-rabbi-asher-lopatin/#comment-480</link>
		<dc:creator>shneer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Aug 2009 04:41:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://morethodoxy.org/2009/06/29/goodbye-shelo-asani-god-didnt-make-me-a-hello-sheasani-yisrael-god-made-me-a-yisrael-rabbi-asher-lopatin/#comment-480</guid>
		<description>&quot;Bottom line: a system in which the answer to ever question is always “yes” isn’t a real system.&quot;

I laughed when I read this. Coming originally from a Conservative shul environement in the Upper Midwest, Conservatives&#039; &#039;take&#039; on Halacha makes perfect sense.

Many of the &#039;leaders&#039; of that Movement are the same affluent,somewhat bratty and spoiled adolescents with whom I passed through Hebrew school and attended Camp Ramah. They were never told &#039;NO&#039; by their parents, their teachers, anyone without their parents rushing to defend their little darlings and castigate the authorities of whatever class, camp or program were &#039;afflicting&#039; their precious kids.

So, it is no surprise at all that these same privileged legends-in-their-own-minds would not have the backbone, will and honesty to create and stand by Halachic laws, but rather, as stated above in a reply, simply &#039;take a vote&#039; and nullify the observance of that Halacha for their congregants.

Which is one big reason, among others, I left the Conservative Movement. If I&#039;m going to pick and choose on a whim, I can do that on my own, I don&#039;t need their Rabbinical Assembly to do it for me. And, as a current TraditionalDox Jew, if I don&#039;t observe a Halacha, at least I do that privately, rather than seeking to institutionalize it with some bogus &#039;hescher&#039; from the Conservative Movement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Bottom line: a system in which the answer to ever question is always “yes” isn’t a real system.&#8221;</p>
<p>I laughed when I read this. Coming originally from a Conservative shul environement in the Upper Midwest, Conservatives&#8217; &#8216;take&#8217; on Halacha makes perfect sense.</p>
<p>Many of the &#8216;leaders&#8217; of that Movement are the same affluent,somewhat bratty and spoiled adolescents with whom I passed through Hebrew school and attended Camp Ramah. They were never told &#8216;NO&#8217; by their parents, their teachers, anyone without their parents rushing to defend their little darlings and castigate the authorities of whatever class, camp or program were &#8216;afflicting&#8217; their precious kids.</p>
<p>So, it is no surprise at all that these same privileged legends-in-their-own-minds would not have the backbone, will and honesty to create and stand by Halachic laws, but rather, as stated above in a reply, simply &#8216;take a vote&#8217; and nullify the observance of that Halacha for their congregants.</p>
<p>Which is one big reason, among others, I left the Conservative Movement. If I&#8217;m going to pick and choose on a whim, I can do that on my own, I don&#8217;t need their Rabbinical Assembly to do it for me. And, as a current TraditionalDox Jew, if I don&#8217;t observe a Halacha, at least I do that privately, rather than seeking to institutionalize it with some bogus &#8216;hescher&#8217; from the Conservative Movement.</p>
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		<title>By: Asher Lopatin</title>
		<link>http://morethodoxy.org/2009/06/29/goodbye-shelo-asani-god-didnt-make-me-a-hello-sheasani-yisrael-god-made-me-a-yisrael-rabbi-asher-lopatin/#comment-313</link>
		<dc:creator>Asher Lopatin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jul 2009 18:27:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://morethodoxy.org/2009/06/29/goodbye-shelo-asani-god-didnt-make-me-a-hello-sheasani-yisrael-god-made-me-a-yisrael-rabbi-asher-lopatin/#comment-313</guid>
		<description>Dear Sir - I&#039;m not sure of your name - who is still harping on She&#039;asani Yisrael being a b&#039;racha l&#039;vatala: 

First of all, anyone who wants can go to tractate Menachot 43b, and they will see that the version we have in our G&#039;marra is &quot;She&#039;asani Yisrael&quot;.  End of discussion.  Yes, many rishonim - if not most - have a different version, but our G&#039;marras that we live with still have this version, not in brackets or anything, right there for all to see.  Secondly, Rav Benny Lau is an important Jewish thinker, a well-respected Rav, and he does the same thing - in fact, he is partially and inspiration for this.  He is not the type to make b&#039;rachot l&#039;vatala.  So both from a technical point of view (the text of the G&#039;marra, continued through the Rosh and the G&#039;ra) and from a Shelshelet Hakabbala point of view (as evidenced by Rav Lau, a respected part of that halachik system) I have every halachik right to say She&#039;asani Yisrael.  Beyond that, I would much rather argue about a One State Solution for Israel, or the cause of the Chareidi riots in Israel or synagogues and homosexuals or women rabbis or something!!  Besides just obsessing on one b&#039;racha!  Don’t say it if you don’t want to! 

With the love of Torah and ahavat chinam, 

Asher Lopatin 

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Sir &#8211; I&#8217;m not sure of your name &#8211; who is still harping on She&#8217;asani Yisrael being a b&#8217;racha l&#8217;vatala: </p>
<p>First of all, anyone who wants can go to tractate Menachot 43b, and they will see that the version we have in our G&#8217;marra is &#8220;She&#8217;asani Yisrael&#8221;.  End of discussion.  Yes, many rishonim &#8211; if not most &#8211; have a different version, but our G&#8217;marras that we live with still have this version, not in brackets or anything, right there for all to see.  Secondly, Rav Benny Lau is an important Jewish thinker, a well-respected Rav, and he does the same thing &#8211; in fact, he is partially and inspiration for this.  He is not the type to make b&#8217;rachot l&#8217;vatala.  So both from a technical point of view (the text of the G&#8217;marra, continued through the Rosh and the G&#8217;ra) and from a Shelshelet Hakabbala point of view (as evidenced by Rav Lau, a respected part of that halachik system) I have every halachik right to say She&#8217;asani Yisrael.  Beyond that, I would much rather argue about a One State Solution for Israel, or the cause of the Chareidi riots in Israel or synagogues and homosexuals or women rabbis or something!!  Besides just obsessing on one b&#8217;racha!  Don’t say it if you don’t want to! </p>
<p>With the love of Torah and ahavat chinam, </p>
<p>Asher Lopatin</p>
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