I started looking into change at age 19. I did some therapy then, however it wasn’t specific to this issue – it was general, about improving all aspects of my life. We did focus on homosexuality at times, and the therapy opened my eyes to the idea that I might be able to move beyond it. But that was mostly in my head. I took some minor steps towards change.

I did some other therapy which was helpful in certain ways – but at a certain point I really felt that I was not moving forward. And I can relate to the “torment” you said your friends felt. I felt like….well, maybe this is just who I am. However, it in no way met my value system, and experiences with gay sex had left me feeling it was also “not me”. So I felt I was in a really tough spot.

At a certain point I started psychoanalysis. The real thing – like out of Woody Allen movies. I had many blocks to going. But it really started to help me – and quickly. While I can see how it is not for everyone – for me, it really helped bring up a lot of deep issues which I probably would never have gotten to otherwise. In a very slow, but usually steady fashion, I found myself growing in all sorts of ways. One of them was in my feelings towards other men. It is, as you can imagine, very complex and had steps forward & backwards to be sure.

I also participated in “Journey into Manhood” which is a secular weekend for men dealing with same sex attraction. I took part in some great activities as well as met numerous men who were like me. That was personally revealing, liberating and very educational. These men were all at different points in their journey.

I also took part in other activities geared towards growth for men (altho’ not specifically for same sex attraction issues). I found this also very helpful.

So….I hope this helps somewhat.

I don’t think this is for everyone – for sure.

Thank you for your inquiry. Based upon the reports of our clients, a high percentage report successful outcomes. Successful outcomes principally involve elimination or significant diminishment of same-sex attractions and in many cases may include marriage for those who were single and stronger marriages for those already married. While we do not have a definitive longitudinal study at the present time, we are working with researchers to have one that is sufficiently long term to be meaningful. Studies, however, done by others with different population bases indicate a high rate of success without any significant relapses to old patterns.
When you ask about detrimental effects including suicidal ideation, the very question is in itself a red herring. Those familiar with the literature of the field understand that the truth is that suicide rates are far more significant within the gay identified world and are deminimus in the recovery world.
The best way for someone to determine whether they wish to proceed forward with a program of change is to do their homework and talk to individuals who have successfully gone through the process of transformation or at least read the testimonials of those who have done so.
Sincerely,
AG

I appreciate that you can cite 600 papers supporting the possibility of changing sexual orientation. This gives us important insight into historical results.

Many of us long for future results, so the relevant issue for those is not how many papers support the possibility of this change but the immediate and practical question: What is the likelihood that a person’s involvement with JONAH will lead to a long-term successful outcome.

Certainly, you must have those statistics. I’d appreciate if you would share what criteria JONAH uses to determine successful outcome, what percentage of the people JONAH has worked with have had successful outcomes, how long these outcomes have persisted, how many married, how many are celibate, how many are living happy (or at least non-tortured) lives, and whether or not there are substantial risks — for example whether over time what percentage of JONAH participants developed detrimental effects from the treatment including suicidal ideation.

Such direct statistics for a course of action offering such hope would go a long way to helping a great many people choose a positive course of action.

-Yaakov

Subtle put-down notwithstanding (you don’t know me, so I am equally “amazed” at your ability to identify
“people such as me,” and I appreciate when the kettle calls me “self-serving”), thank you for your clarification. It is good to hear that Jonah has no ill will towards gay people.

At the same time, you deftly avoided responded to the questions by labeling them as self-serving. Does the position “if you are happy being gay, gay gezunde haight,” mean that your organization would agree with Rabbi Shafner’s call for inclusion, understanding, and sympathy? Or do your statistics above suggest that you do see a form of moral and social deviance in the behavior of the homosexual?

My questions may have been self serving, but perhaps no more than any other post here, or statements that your organization has been made, either. Perhaps we can just agree that we are espousing different vantage points, and those points of view are deeply bound up with systems that are exclusively reinforcing. That does not prevent me from at least trying to understand your point of view by asking questions about it, even if only to disagree with it more vehemently.

That being said, it is hard for me to understanding why your earlier contributions take issue with Rabbi Shafner’s proposed position of sympathy and inclusion for men and women who are gay who still wish to be a part of the Orthodox community. Why does his relatively benign posting merit your response that argues that he includes fundamental flaws? What is at stake here? What problems do you foresee with Rabbi Shafner’s proposal for the future of Orthodox communities?

It continually amazes me how people such as yourself continue to misrepresent what we say and ask self-serving questions. In fact, your questions show a lack of understanding of what we are about. Simply stated our position is, “if you are happy being gay, gay gezunde haight” (go in good health) pun intended. In this society, one has the freedom to determine their own life choices. On the other hand, if you have a value incongruity or for whatever reason are unhappy with your feelings, attractions, or behavior, we offer programs that can be of assistance. Check out our website http://www.jonahweb.org or contact us at info@jonahweb.org.

For those who choose not to take this journey – I understand, I sympathize. I am one who chose the journey – but I can totally understand why you would find it doesn’t work for you.

I think JONAH offers amazing help to people. My only complaint is they are too ideological. Let go a bit….those who benefit from JONAH (and there are hundreds, if not thousands, of such people) are your best statistic. Stop fighting so much & arguing so much.

You have asserted strongly that “the secular bias in the report against religious values is evident.” What would you say to someone who values his religious lifestyle, but also acknowledges and accepts his gay attractions and search for same-sex companionship?

Am I a self-hating Jew?
Am I morally flawed?
Am I a puppet of some interest group or another?
Is there a place for me in synagogue and community, or can your group help to make sure that my reality will continue to be viewed as aberrant, deviant, and dangerous?

Do tell. Please.