Comments on: What Netanyahu Should Have Proposed, by Rabbi Asher Lopatin

By: ordination, orthodox, catholic, online ordination

ordination, orthodox, catholic, online ordination — Thu, 02 Feb 2012 15:14:59 +0000

ordination, orthodox, catholic, online ordination…

[...]What Netanyahu Should Have Proposed, by Rabbi Asher Lopatin « Morethodoxy: Exploring the Breadth, Depth and Passion of Orthodox Judaism[...]…

By: Shachar haamim

Shachar haamim — Tue, 06 Oct 2009 19:35:45 +0000

a few thoughts:

1) I think you need to admit that there are many elements in USA modern orthodoxy that are NOT Zionist and are sometimes even anti-zionist. solving Israel’s supposed demographic problems by importing african and asian pseudo-Jews led by funny rabbis (tartei mashmei for chicagoans…) while modern orthodox Jews stay in their comfortable suburban homes in the USA is not Zionism and is not normative to the Jewish religion or tradition. It makes a mockery of nearly all prayers stated thrice daily

2) I hope when you move to the Land of Israel in 2011 (to whatever state will be in effect then and will let you in) that if it is still run by the State of Israel that will be intellectually honest enough to request that you and your family NOT be admitted by virtue of the Law of Return, nor by the Israeli Citizenship Law (if any of you happen to be considered citizens already) but rather come as an immigrant who is not eligible to enter Israel via one of those laws. In your “One State” these laws will be abolished – as it is there are many Israelis even of Jewish ancestry who wish to abolish the Law of Return already. It would be dishonest for you to advocate a One-State “solution” yet come here via a law that will certainly NEVER be accepted for the One State.

3) here’s some more reading about your one-state http://www.zeevgalili.com/?p=286

By: Y. Ben-David

Y. Ben-David — Sun, 27 Sep 2009 11:57:14 +0000

I am surprised that you didn’t do some research before coming up with this idea. Look at Lebanon and Iraq as prototypes, both are multi-cultural, multi-confessional states. Lebanon was a democracy which to this day has free elections and a constitution. In Lebanon, even though there is a large Christian minority, everyone is an Arab. In Iraq, almost everyone is a Muslim. So what do we have in Lebanon?….a 15 year-long bloody civil war and total political paralysis since then, punctuated by assassinations of politicians who cause trouble for one side or the other. In Iraq, a really bloody war for control, even though everyone involved are Muslims, which, as everyone knows, teaches its followers to love one another and to view each others as brothers. In the state you are proposing here, we Jews are neither Arabs or Muslims so we don’t have any of the “advantages” that Iraq and Lebanon had in being patchwork states of the type you suggest. So do you seriously believe such a thing could work? Is it any wonder that EVERY Arab state is an iron-fisted dictatorship? If they weren’t they would all break apart. This is true even of relatively “liberal” Arab states like Jordan and Tunisia which clothe the iron fist in a glove of velvet…neither allows any real opposition to the regime in power to coalesce. So the consitution and other “protections” for us Jews in this mythical state are meaningless. What Garnel said above is true, what “average people” on the Arab street think is meaningless. You can have as many conversations and symposia with anecdotal Palestinians who say they want to live in peace with us, but it doesn’t mean anything. It is the men with the guns, FATAH and HAMAS who make policy, NOT “public opinion”.
We Jews have had the “priviledge” of living as a minority for 2000 years and the Christians and Muslims who ruled us had ample opportunity to prove their supposed “tolerance” but they failed miserably, so as far as the possibility of going back to living as a powerless minority (which is what your plan ultimately means), all I can say is “thanks, but no thanks”.
The ulitmate future of Judea/Samaria will be an INFORMAL modus-vivendi made up of a Jordanian-Palestinian-Israeli condominium, with Jewish settlements remaining in place, Israel having overall security control with its presence being drawn down if the security situation allows it. It must be INFORMAL, because the Arabs will never agree publicly to it, but it will evolve naturally once the Arabs realize that Israeli is not going away, not going to capitulate on Jewish rights to live in Judea/Samaria, and that any other phony “peace process” like that of Oslo and the Gush Katif destruction can only lead to war. It is simply a matter of being patient and holding on, instead of running after ephemeral “peace agreements”.

By: Marilyn

Marilyn — Sat, 26 Sep 2009 17:11:34 +0000

What borders? What Israel? Do you know something no-one else does?

Palestine was not expunged in 1948 you know, it is still there. the country would be Palestine, not Israel and it has never been jewish so the question is moot.

By: Marilyn

Marilyn — Sat, 26 Sep 2009 17:08:46 +0000

Jews who were never there don’t and should not have a right of return, it is the most ludicrous nonsense in the world today..It is a stupid as claiming all catholics have a right of return to Italy, or Anglicans to England, Lutherans to Germany.

They don’t and jews don’t have any right to Palestine and most definitely never did. Just because a few people saying they were members of the cult might have been in the land of Palestine thousands of years ago doesn’t give some goose from the US, Australia or England the right today to go and live there.

A better solution is that all dual citizen illegal immigrants in Palestine go home and let the Palestinians have their land back.

By: Rabbi calls for a one-state solution | Antony Loewenstein

Rabbi calls for a one-state solution | Antony Loewenstein — Sat, 26 Sep 2009 12:01:32 +0000

[...] Asher Lopatin published in June on the moreorthodoxy blog an essay entitled, “What Netanyahu Should Have Proposed.” Here are some of his proposals, which he calls, in a nod to Muslim sensibilities, the Five Pillars [...]

By: Asher Lopatin

Asher Lopatin — Tue, 04 Aug 2009 14:26:40 +0000

I recently hung out with a group of Palestinians from Hevron while I was on an Encounter program in Beit Lechem. Yes, I specifically want to put Jews and Palestinians back in places where there was tension – even massacres – in the past. Let’s study integration in America for a good model – we didn’t shirk from allowing blacks into white universities. Even when there will be One State and peace in that state between Jews and Palestinians, I have no expectation of Jordan or any other Arab state being friends with the Holy Land State. That is a whole different ball game which might take a lot longer. No, I am interested in the Jews and Arabs of the Holy Land.

Asher Lopatin

By: Zachor HaTuels

Zachor HaTuels — Tue, 04 Aug 2009 05:15:50 +0000

Let me make sure I understand…

You want to try out putting Jews and Muslims together in flashpoint cities where massacres took place in recent history.

You want to allow a Palestinian right of return with no way to keep any riff-raff Arab with no personal or ancestral connection to Palestine from joining in the rush to rob and rape rich Israelis.

You want to establish a Supreme Court to enforce adherence to a Constitutional mandate to be nice to each other.

You want to inflict on Israel a “people” who can’t even get along among themselves, and whose legitimate land and leader, Abdullah of Jordan, has formally and officially said he wants no part of them?

By: Asher Lopatin

Asher Lopatin — Mon, 03 Aug 2009 22:55:32 +0000

I live in scruffy – but beautiful – Lakeview, not tony Lincoln Park. And I am planning Aliya in two years to the Negev. The same dream that brought millions back to the Holy Land, and built our beloved State of Israel, which has been dismissed time and time again just like you are doing, is the same dream which brings me to believe in Israel secure and at peace.

If you are a dreamer, join us in Israel!

RAL

By: Zachor HaTuels

Zachor HaTuels — Sun, 02 Aug 2009 06:31:23 +0000

I’m sure this will work. Just look at Lebanon, Balkans… these are Paradises of Shared Sovereignty. And by all means, bring on Nelson Mandela, the man who who befriended Yasir Arafat and his Cause as he continued to murder Jews directly and by proxy. Dear God, Rabbi, didn’t you learn from your Fatah Hawk debacle that they really, truly want to eliminate us from the neighborhood? As an above poster warned, the people don’t matter in the Middle East. People Power is routinely crushed, as in Tehran, Hama, etc. Only in tony Lincoln Park watching the sailboats cruise off of Belmont Harbor could someone fathom such idealistic, ultimately suicidal drivel.

They kill. They kill Jews. They kill their own daughters and sisters, for ‘honor’. Syria has had how many coups since the ’40′s? Iraq? Yemen? Esav’s way is the sword. It’s not pretty, and I don’t like it, but pretending we all come together and sing kumbaya and share a doobie while rocking to Carlebach is going to get Jews killed!